Sip moderators/SIP performance pipe owners please read

Gandy
VERY! Its basicly held together with patches, which is why I thought the SIP would at least pull better,as the inside must be like a hedgehog, but the SIP just felt restricted first of all thought their was something stuck up the end!
If I could afford too, I would rip all the packing out and try,but wouldn’t be able to resell it if I’ve been messing with it,had to save to get this one!
still you learn by your mistakes!

http://www.jl-jimlomas.com/

Yes, the standard T5 clutch is 20 cog.
The drive gears are interchangable, so I should end up with a stronger 4 plate 20 cog clutch.
Wheres all the answers from SIP? You’d have thought all this talk questioning there products/advice would have promted a reply.

I think they are vague on purpose in an effort to get more of ya hard earned.

Let us know how you get on with the new Scorpian.

Stick the pipe on EBay, I got £195 for mine, only £10 short of what I paid for it!

This weekend i’m going to rebuild to rebuild my cosa clutch using my old drive gear. Hopefully this will cure all my problems??!!??
The point i’m trying to make is why do sip recommend the cosa clutch for T5’s?
http://www.norwichscooterclub.co.uk/

Indeed Gaz, and ‚Taffys‘ the tuning master, which means i’m still inclined to think its the SIP exhaust.

When I first had the T5 as standard it would sit at 60 all day without missing a beat!!

I just wanted that little extra so I wasn’t running at full throttle constently.

I need to sort it out soon, i’m riding to ‚Cambersands‘ at the beginning of July and my mates are on TS1’s!!

I’m sure MTL direct will know, he seems to have a answer for everything??

http://www.norwichscooterclub.co.uk/

Right gentlemen,
I’ve refitted the standard clutch, and guess what???

No sorry to excite you, it made f*** all difference!
So I phoned a mate to ask if I could borrow a old standard T5 exhaust & guess what??

Yep you guessed it he knows someone else having the same troublem, so he gave me his number & i phoned him.

What I then found out is quite interesting, the lad had actually taken the pipe to a exhaust builder, CS engineering in Norwich (pride chopper, & unpredicable gp 200 see this months scootering. its fair to say he knows his stuff)
He looked at the pipe and done some calculations, (look in tuning vespas by norrie kerr for the formulas)
Now he reckons the pipe design is shite, its to short and fat to full the chamber at resonable revs, so to get any sort of performance in top gear you’d have to go for extreme gearing, in turn risking over reving and b***ning up engines.

Do you lads think the pipe may have been designed more for the SIP rear disc rather than performance??

I’ve now got a standard T5 exhaust on, i won’t be winning any races but it sits nicely at 60 on 3/4 throttle, but the pipe won’t let it rev any higher.
I’m also waiting for a stainless scorpion pipe to be delivered next week, hopefully this should sort my problems.
This pipe seems to be a resonable sports pipe which is suited to the mallossi 172 kit.
The simioni could also cure your problems if after this experience your worried about shelling out on another stainless pipe.
I’ll let you know how i get on with the scorpion.

And last but not least…
f******* S.I.P!!!
thats the last of my money you’ll be getting, you haven’t even got the customer service to come on this site and help people who’ve spent good money with you.
I knew i should have trusted my Grandads judgement of Germans…

http://www.norwichscooterclub.co.uk/

Alright Andy,
Yes you should be able to get results with the SIP & hp4, but as you found at cost!
PM & Taffspeed are both out of stock of T5 pipes, belive it or not.
So I phoned 2 wheeled enginneering about the Scorpion pipe, they were also out of stock but said they’d had no problems with fitting the T5 pipe on kitted scoots.
I then phoned Rev & Go, (they are a Malossi tech centre) I explained the trouble i’ve had. They said they’d had no trouble with the Scorpion pipe performance only with its fitting. You may require spaces to move the pipe any from the rear wheel.
Also in scootering (one with a lammy chop hot pearl snatch) on the front they dyno test the scorpion and its about the same as the Taffy.
Gaz7 who posts on this board also has a scorpion on a kitted T5 and he reckons its fine, as well as that if you check out wellermans site theres some posts on there about the scorpion and everyone seems to agree is a good pipe.
I should get mine wednesday so i’ll let you know how i find it, it was £200 quid including P&P, and pm/taffy work out about £300 once you’ve had them chromed.
So heres hoping…

http://www.norwichscooterclub.co.uk/

Tried to line the pipes up yesterday for the bodge, but the fit is not going to work easily (Taffys have a long ‚snake‘ down pipe, Sip has a short streight one, added to which the sip-joint does not fit, they just butt-up, so even my flip the pipe to the ‚up-and-over‘ positon and attach with bungie straps was not possible)

Checked the dimensions/shape of the two pipes and…exactly as CS Engineeting commented, the Taff is longer and thinner than the SIP T5…so is the SIP for the P2!..I’m gonna try that instead, when my mate can spare it for an hour or two (it performs better than his old Taffy on his P2)

Well my problem is with welding the stainless to extend it…this is a specialist welding operation.

My options are a bit limited…buy a Taffy downpipe for the T5…expensive (if available). Try and lengthen the SIP pipe…by welding an extension on the downpipe and the bracket (ie move the whole chamber forward). Off load the SIP and buy a PM (when available) and hope that works better…it does look longer/thinner and is designed/set-up on their dyno…but is bloody expensive and unavailable and needs chroming or painting …or …and this is what I am most likely to try next…

Buy an exhaust power-valve to run with the SIP pipe. This basically opens at low RPM creating a chamber that produces more torque/low rpm power and then closes at high rpm allowing the expansion chamber to work. It is adjustable, so I can ‚tune‘ it to the powerband on the SIP/Malossi and alegedly have the best of both worlds. It costs about 50quid (79 Euro) and needs to be welded onto the down pipe with a flange (that comes supplied with it).
I’ll have to get a mild steel downpipe to do this tho…wish me luck…I’ll keep you posted

As for what pipes are ‚designed‘ for the T5 and which are ‚P2‘ chambers my understanding is this:

PM (19 and EVO), SIP/JL ('revvy=old and torquy=new versions) are designed for the T5 (+ a couple of obscure german pipes)

Taffy, Scorpion and all the ‚sport‘ pipes are P2 chambers with a T5 downpipe/collar…some of which actually work better, or are at-least more torquy than the SIP ‚old‘. So yes, with the Taffy , you should be able to fit their down-pipe and go. How much are they though? I would check what model Taffy it’s for as well (Mk4?)…my mates is a Mk3…Check with the brothers Taff themselves, they are ever so helpfull.

ANOTHER CAN OF WORMS!!!
I HAVE A T5 WITH 172 MALOSSI KIT ,COSA CLUTCH AND SIP PIPE.
I HAVE JUST RETURNED FROM WORCESTERSHIRE FROM READ SPEED SCOOTERS HAVING HAD MY SCOOTER PUT ON A DYNO.THE RESULT-17.9BHP AT 76 MPH!!
I WAS QUITE SURPRISED!
THE GUY AT READSPEED SAID THAT A T5 COULD NOT DO MORE THAN 85MPH-ISH BECAUSE OF THE GEARINGOF THE T5 BOX.IF YOU CHANGED THE BOX FOR A P2 THEN YOU EXPECT MORE,BUT YOU MIGHT LOSE THE ACCERATION.
YOU CAN’T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT!!!
P.S I HAVE A 30MM DELORTO CARB AND IT SEEMS TO WORK OK
HAPPY SCOOTERING
[:smile:] [:smile:] [:smile:] [:smile:] [:smile:]

Slidingdog

Just out of interest, how rusty is your taffy pipe?

FOR SALE… T5 Performance exhaust, a little dent from when it off i would of liked a new one but you get no guarantee with a SIP, comes with a bag of jets and some pulled out hair, on the hole looks good and go’s ok [:roll:] [:roll:] [:roll:]

Perhaps they are not so popular for the T5 coz of the probs.

Im not as I dont have a scoot at the mo [:(]

When I first put the Sip om my 210 1st and 2nd gear were gone in a flash, third gear pulled like a train from 45 - 65, put it in 4th and it creeped up to 75 or so, any kind of wind or incline and it wouldnt accelerate at all, if the incline was steep or there was a strong wind it would slow down and id drop back into 3rd.

I guess this is the same situation you have. The T5 4th gave me the ability to accelerate quickly in 4th and hold 70 going up hills, it also increased my top end, as on a good day it will hit 85.

I guess that I was not touching the powerband with the oringinal 4th gear, so if this is the same for you lower gearing will be the answer.

THIS TOPIC SEEMS TO ON EVERYONES MIND
I WAS TALKING TO A BLOKE ABOUT EXPANSION PIPES AND HE RECKONS IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO IT BEING MADE OF STAINLESS STEEL.IT DOESN’T RESONATE AS WELL AS MILD STEEL.I READ A RESPONSE ABOUT BASHING THE F**K OUT OF THE PIPE WITH A CLUB HAMMER-£200 WORTH-AFTER YOU!!!

I MIGHT SWAP IT OVER FOR A SITO PLUS I HAVE AND SEE WHAT THE DIFFERANCE IS.I WILL BE ANNOYED IF IT IS BETTER AND PULLS ANY BETTER IN 4TH GEAR[:@] [:@] [:@] [:@] [:@] [:@]

Lurch: Thanks for the effort in getting the pipe checked out.

Couple more things: SIP catalogue description of the Stainless/Performance referrs to the P2 pipe only, nothing to do with the T5 one which it is sold on the back of so to speak. Incidentally the P2 pipe gets excellent reports from my mate (eg. much better than his old Taffy)
The T5 pipe on the otherhand (and there is not much info out there), and going from the Scooter Centre catalogue (They call it the ‚JL Performance‘ …it’s the same pipe). Well they say it is 'based arround the old Kegra pipe design…so the chamber has ben arround for a while…no idea if the Kegra was good (old scootering anyone). I do know that the Kegra P2 pipe gets a really shit write up…you dont need krautish to understand the pictures or the comment ‚Es ist der komplete sheizer‘.
So SIP/Lomas have updated it. As the whole thing is hand made, i’m sure it would be a ‚piece of piss‘ to make a longer downpipe and a bracket with an extension (moving everything 4cm forward). I’d actually be willing to pay for it, if it works (wouldn’t you?)

Lurch a bit of ‚buyer be ware‘. I am not 100% sure on this, but I suspect that the Scorpion is in-fact just another re-branded Jim Lomas pipe…you might be buying more of the same. Take the SIP to the shop if you can and compare before shelling out. + About stainlss pipes in general: Sure they do not rust, however stainless is also much more brittle than mild steel. As it does not flex it tends to break/crack…particularly at the welds. Two mates have had this on the SIP (P2) one at 3000miles and one at 1000miles! It’s not to do with the quality of the welds, but the material.

You have a fairly highly tuned motorwith high compression, I thought I would just pass that on for info. Personally if I was going to replace with a high-end (expensive) pipe, I’d look at the PM first…Exhaust Test

Try phoning Chiselspeed on 0113 2811052, they sell both the scorpion and taffspeed pipes. They’ll be able to give impartal advice if they think your interested in purchasing.
http://www.norwichscooterclub.co.uk/