Please help make a hard choice easy ....PX 200.... Thanks heaps guys

First ive searched the forums for hours and im not much the wiser and sick of it.

 

Im staring a fresh, ive got a german PX200 from the 90's so its stuck with one of those damn 10hp cylinders.

I need advice

To start with i want a 12 hp cylinder. The mallossi ( http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/products/racing+cylinder+malossi+210cc+_3113764 ) seems like it may give me some future as well as getting me the 12 hp to start with. I have a sito exhaust and a simonini to choose from, so although not top of the range something to start with.

 

What i want is a bit of advice from some people who can help me decide what top end to get and why for touring.

 

I really appreciate the advice too, i want to get going for our summer here so fast advice is also excellent.

Kindest regards

Hutch

hutch,

my knowledge of the 'german' px200 is not that great... can you tell me why the german version is only putting out 10 hp instead of 12hp? i'm only guessing, but is it the carb? is it a 20/20 or a 24/24? i think the early p200s came with a 20/20 and put out less hp then the later 24/24 versions. if you can get your hp up with just a carb instead of rebuilding a good engine... cheap and easy would be my first choice.

also, is your exhaust a sito or a sito+? i believe there are both of them, and i believe there is a performance difference between the two. have you tried the simonini exhaust? what did you think about that one? i've read it's not as torquey as a sito+ but will give you a better high end.

and just so you know where i'm coming from... i have two two stroke stellas (or, lml stars.) one with a stock 150cc engine plus a sito+ and one with a stock 200cc (lml) engine plus a malossi exhaust. for around town, i prefer the 150 with the sito+. it has better low end power then my 200cc with the malossi... i feel like i have to keep the 200cc really revving it get it's power.- 55mph on the 200cc is great.

hutch,

it's sounds like the way to go for you is either a us-spec p200/rally or the pinasco kit... those should work best if you're keeping your stock crank. if your 200 came with a 20/20 carb you should definitely go with a 24/24 or 26/26 carb. (especially if you go with the pinasco kit.) as for the shocks, i guess that's up to you - i don't really know what kind of ride you have. if you plan on keeping the scoot for the long haul, i would probably try to upgrade a little more on the suspension. but, i'm the one half trying to talk you out of putting a new kit on a good running engine - so what the heck do i know? when it comes time for an exhaust, i would take a good look at the sip road exhaust - every thing i've read says it gives nice low end power but a better top end then a sito+. i know it's on my wish list when i save up the cash.

 

i wish we had heaps of newer 200s over here. let me know how things work out.

heggie

hutch,

the first step i would take is to try out the sito and simonini exhaust (adjust your jets.) that you already have and see what that does for your performance. (both of those should give you a noticeable jump in hp.)

from what i've read, and from people i've talked to, the malossi kit with the malossi head is not a great choice for a touring set up... it seems with the malossi head the compression is really high. more set up for racing. maybe it would be a little better with a different head or a spacer to lower the compression a bit.

the question i guess i should ask is - does your engine need a rebuild or are you just looking for more power? if the engine is still strong and you want a touring set up, i would wait for the sip road exhaust (24165000) to come back in stock... install that and do some carb/timing work. (and maybe some gearing work.) - that should put you around 12 hp. pinasco's kit is considered more of a touring kit. my friend swears by his polini kit. i think sip uses malossi on their touring 200s. the way i see it, all of those kits have pluses and minuses - all of those kits have people that will say pick this one - all of those kits will have people that say they've had great luck or horrible luck with them... all of those kits will give you more power, but with more power comes less MPGs - and for me, on a touring scooter with a 2 gallon tank - give me the best MPGs i can get.

i'm sorry if that didn't help any, but that's my opinion for a 'touring' set up.

Thanks alot Heggie,

 

As far as i can see the engine is all good, in that it doesnt require a rebuild. What i wanted to achieve is just moving from a 10 hp cylinder to something a bit gruntier without having to demolish the whole engine. The sito is already installed with a bigger jet but its not enough really.

I suppose i forgot to add the engine is out of the frame as im respraying the frame. I thought id do this now then go mad with tuning once im bored or have a bit more money etc.

 

I reckon i will get that pinasco, that seems like good advice, i will hold out on buying a decent exhaust as i have 2 already that would do for a start to touring i reckon.  Again, i think money will come along magically and ill probably purchase a better exhaust later next year, by then i will probably match the cases or something as well.

 

I really appreciate the advice, and will listen to any more one has to offer.

 

My cart for my rebuild goes like this

 

Shock Absorber CARBONE Sport  

                        <span id="ctl00_ctl00_ContentPlaceHolderMain_ContentPlaceHolderCheckout_BasketPanel_CurrentBasketView_ctl06_LabelArtNo" class="tf_smallsize tf_less"></span>
                        <span id="ctl00_ctl00_ContentPlaceHolderMain_ContentPlaceHolderCheckout_BasketPanel_CurrentBasketView_ctl06_LabelArtNoData" class="tF_sizeDown tF_strong">71017000</span></p>

Shock Absorber CARBONE Sport  71003000

Racing Cylinder PINASCO 215cc  81110000

Cable Kit, PREMIUM for Vespa 94190400

Rubber Buffer rear, top, shock  60536000

Silent Rubber shock absorber X2(i think you need 2) 17408500

Silent Rubber engine rocker 17472400

 

+ New brake shoes and a couple of odd bits of body rubber

 

Im kinda guessing with the shocks but figure they will handle better than the originals. is it a waste of money? Am i buying the correct shock rubbers(?) to replace the ones i have as the bike feels "wobbly" at the rear.

Thanks again heggie,

sorry all that they are such noob questions but your really helping me out. Much appreciated.

hutch,

where are you located at? have you talked with the local scooterists to see what they are doing with 200 engines?

 

mate im in new zealand,

theres a couple of "famous" tuners here and they charge an arm and a leg for any work. They actually buy there gear from SIP and bump retail on it to the user. (so everything is twice the price) We have a heap of these older german scooters and they go for pitance. Main problem is people cant be bothered putting effort and paying the guys a couple of thousand dollars to do the work on them, as there are heaps of newer 12hp ones around, for about 3 grand you get a good one.

 What they seem to do over here is put a 24/24 carb on and exhaust and upjet. Thats okay for low end torque, but a bit hairy in traffic as it doesnt seem to have the power up the other end. Damn even my 1958 175 tigress beats my px. So this will work out good for me if i can get a decent bolt on for it. better handling and speed delivered for a grand is about the price of my shopping list. Its affordable.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the good advice and sounding board stuff heggie,

It certainly has given me something to think about. Once action takes place ill let you know how it goes.

 

Hutch

 

From what i have researched and i may be wrong,(but ive looked for hours and made my girlie translate german youtube) Below is pretty much what im led to believe...

 

I believe they were restricted due to german regulations concerning old classes of insurance. They have the engine prefix VDE1M XXXX

 

"Deutsch Vespa motor PX200E Lusso - limited to 100 kph"

"the ONLY difference is that the cylinder on the german p2's is milled 2mm at the bottom to reduce the port timings.. "

therefore the exhaust AND transfer ports are all open for a shorter period on the 10hp cylinder.

i just measured the ports on both the 10hp and 12hp cylinders, and the transfer ports are both 13mm wide (direction of stroke) and 25mm tall (radialy around the bore) when you overlap the port maps, the openings are all exactly the same, just the 10hp's ports are all 2mm lower than the 12's. so in essence, when the barrel is fitted on the motor, the ports are effectivly smaller, but the ports as such are the same on both.
it does appear that the 10hp barrel has ~1.2-1.5mm more material on the top of the cylinder around the sealing surface with the cylinder head to compensate for the milling at the bottom..

the heads were nearly identical, only difference on the two versions i have are that the 12hp has the 'extra feet' on the outside of each stud hole for a more stabil mount on the cylinder...

if you want more power, you can just bolt on a us-spec p2/rally barrel.

 Taken from the old Scooterbbs forum archives

 

Thats all i can find on the differences and how to deal with it.

 

The exhaust is a sito not the plus i think, i cant tell.(whats the difference?) Ive tried the simonini, its got heaps of low end power over stock and a bit more on top, but seeing as the engines out its pretty easy to swop top ends huh? just bolt off and on? I really want to have a bit more than 12 hp really so would like to get a kit i can bolt on. Then when it comes to splitting cases refresh with new rings and grind some material off the case to match as well as getting all the other good things a tuned rebuild needs. Itll never be a racer but i want a balance between top speed, reliability and power

 

Cheers Hutch