Mallossi 210

Could some kind scooter person tell me how long to take it easy with a newly fitted 210 kit?? the book says only 40-60 minutes running time but i’m shitting myself…going to whitby this weekend hopefully and dont want to push the thing 100 miles!!!
Am i better staying below fifty for a couple of hundred miles??
any help would be appreciated

see you in the saturday night shindig ---- i’ll be the one on the floor in the bounce!!!
thats if i get there

cheers[:drink:]

Thanks again mate i’m only on the standard carb with standard mix tub e with the 130 clagged on!!
the engine is all standard with a dissapointing scorpion after reading all the other posts…
i’m sorry to sound thick after reading the forum you all seem to tune these things to excess and i’m only a beginner…

when your at a UK rally give me a shout and i’ll gladly buy you a pint— knowledge like this DOES not come from shops!!! or am I going to the wrong shops!!

cheers mate

[:drink:] [:drink:] [:drink:] [:drink:]

Really thanks again but as a lazy scooterist if i change to a 30 carb would i lose the oil injection. is there a carb that would upgrade but allow for injection???
until i save for a carb what mixture jet would keep me going for now??
thanks again
[:drink:]

hello again,

reading well, you wanted to know how long since your malossi is just fitted.
You could go this way:

Warm the engine up 2- 3 min.

then ride for 15min and get few times to 70% rpm in 1st and 2nd and then cool down (stop) for 30min.
During the cool down stops you could change carb jet or other mod if you feel the engine need to.
Ride again for 15min this time reaching few times 80% in 1st and 2nd and then
stop for 30 min.
then ride again for 15 min and get few times to 90% in 1st and 2nd and 3rd and stop for 30min.
Then ride again and get few times to 100% in 1st 2nd and 3rd but no over rev and then cool down stop 30 min.

If you are not sure about your carb setting it is better to run a little richer.
It will take 1 hour riding and 2hours of cooling down.

thankyou very much for the reply it has given me confidence to give it some throttle!!
the only problem i have giving it some welly is the flat spot in 2nd and 3rd , its spluttering as it goes up. i dont want to take the 130 jet out as this is helping the kit stay alive…
so i’ll just put up with it…

it’s great to get advice from people who know their shite

cheers
[:drink:] [:drink:]

Also i have been told to always put 1% pre-mix into tank as well as injection. so curare you are right its time for a 30 mm and total pre-mix --might as well put 3% in as 1 %

will the mallossi kit do

regards

john

hello,

if it is properly set up, carb and ignition, the only two concerns you should have are:

always warm it up 2-3 min. before leaving,

and don’t insist in the high rev or expecially overvev.

Don’t insist means try not to stay in the high rpm more than 5 sec and avoid overev. Especially in the higher gear. And after you get there let the engine cool down a little at mid rev.

For me it doesn’t make to much sense to baby a new engine.
You should pay attention when it is new only if you are setting the carb and ignition and untill you get it right.

But if your the set up is right only you can know.

Just returned from rally, might has well have gone on a push bike!!! 130 jet spluttered all the way up. 3rd gear did nothing. 4th was worse any sort of incline and the thing slow down to 35mph. bought a 125 main jet and changed it at the rally, it was a bit better on the way home but 60 mph was the max it would do and it still wouldn’t climb up hills. spoke to a malossi kitted scooterist who told me it’s ESSENTIAL to fit a t5 fourth gear, a BE4 mix tube, 190 air correction jet and use the 130 main jet.
going to order all the bits from sip and hopefully my pride and joy will again keep up with standard t5’s
P.s. Was also told to set the timing to 125 settings but would hate to seize the f***** thing.
it runs absolutely crackin at idol but nothing on the road

cheers curare

j

As per Curare says, take some electrcal solder of around 1mm thickness, twist it tightly, put end through plug hole until you feel it touch the cylinder wall. I prefer not to use the kickstart, a bit brutal, rotate the flywheel back ad forth until the piston passes tdc and has squashed the solder. pull out the solder and measure the thickness. Repeat in three or four positions around the cylinder wall. A correct squish, in a perfect world, is around the 0.8 figure BUT go for a min. of 1mm due to expansion of con rod and piston at operating temperature. A correctly set squish/ compression ratio can equate to over 8% of total power output, which on small output engines like the vespa is a large gain/ loss, even a malossi engine.

You will do more harm leaving the timing as standard, Malossi recommend 19 degrees, but a safer bet especially with the Scorpian (due to retaianed heat) is closer to 16-17, or better still rotate stator to the stops (rotating clockwise to the stops). Plug b8 minimum. Shouldnt need b9. Make sure squish is no more than 1.3mm ideal at 1.0mm

also how do you measure the squish ???

sorry sounding thick again

hello,

plug b9, W3CC, N-2C are equivalent from different manif. NGK, Bosch, Champion.
The T5 should use as standard this grade so i am sorry I don’t understand this T5 story plug.
You should use one of these. Or try a b8 or equivalent. It depends also from your time adv. ignition you are using.
As far as timing as beerace suggested you could go even less then 18.
The thing is to get the timing as less advanced as possible without loosing performance.
You can start at 18 then try 17 and see.

For the squish you can mesure it easily with a twisted solder cable…no, it is not the right word but I don’t know it in english but I continue anyway, then mesure the thickness of this cable, bent it so you can put ithrough the plug hole and try to put it in a way that it get to the base of the head. then kickstart gently and progressively just to make the piston go then see if the piston squished the solder cable, mesure its thickness and you should have about 1mm. If the tickness before kickstart is 1mm and it has not been squished by the piston it means your squish band is at least 1mm.

I am sorry but can’t explain better, maybe somebody else will do.
Anyway if you need some mod. head I have two of them to sell, they are the same you see in picture in my address net below.
If interested e-mail me at singletone [email protected]

Cheers beerace and curare
I will be poking solder into the engine at the next opportunity, just waiting now to strip down and fit t5 4th. then hopefully i’ll be on the right track!!
thanks again
j
[:drink:] [:drink:] [:drink:] [:drink:] [:drink:]

hello,

when you check the plug you have to check the plug after insisting a certain time in a restricted rpm.
When you check the plug like that with no plug chop tech. and to a certain rpm your plug will tell you that in the range that you generally drive the carb set is ok but you can’t be sur at max rpm.

First you have to get the max jet right for max rpm and then the other jets. (for me is the easiest way)
If you don’t do that you will use a smaller main jet which influence you feel in the mid, mid high, so you will have this range right but at max rpm you will be lean.

Scorpion exhaust shift the power curve considerebly towards high rev so it will need a fairly big main jet, but it is also true that it get this high rpm power at the cost of a certain mid, mid-high rpm power.

So, probably ( since I have never used Scorpion malossi with 24S[I)] you will need to slight lean the mid range and put a bigger main.

But to be sure where you are lean or rich if you can’t tell by drive feeling, you should do the plug chop tech.
You keep the engine rev at a certain rpm afor a certain time this time has to be longer as the rpm rpm are low.
This will tell you where you are.

cheers for advice ;now sporting a 125 jet’ the 120 was to small for the faster speed’this anit as straight forward as i thought it would be’in fact its become a pain in the arse [:angry:] .reading the guest book it sounds like quite a few people have fallen foul as well;…keep a eye on ya plug;

Cheers mate
is the plug you suggest the t5 plug, as at the shop i was told to put a hot running B8 plug .
but was told that some tuning enthusiasts go for the b9 t5 plug.
sorry to keep bugging you
regards
j

…at that point you don’t have any other choice then a 26SI. SIP have them in catalogue.

I am not that expert with the standard carb with Malossi 210.

The 130 main jet seams fine, you have to check with the plug chop technique the plug if is af the good colour.
„Plug chop“: you make the engine stay at WOT for 20 - 30 sec, if you think you are lean start with 20 sec.
Then while you are wide open turn off the contact as well as the gas at the same time. Check the plug. Should be dark brownish colour if you are there. IF is blakish you are rich, if it is light brown you are lean. Look well inside the plug not at the collar.

If I remember well the mixture tube you have with 24 in a PX200
is a BE3. Maybe with the Scorpion curve is too much? How can I say I have never tried this combination before!
But try a BE2 and see if it is better. But it is hard to find a BE2.
And the only way to know if it is better is trying it.

And this is if I understood well what spluttering means.
Is it more a flat power spot an empy feeling with a more metallic sound or a flat spot lazy the engine to pass through with a kind of fuller sound? In the first option the engine is running lean in that range in the second is running rich.
If lean use BE4 if rich use BE2.

To be sure you could drive around 2min - 3min in the spluttering rpm range and then ko engine with plug chop technic. Check the plug and see its colour.

hello,

if it is spluttering as it goes up it could be you need to lower the needle. Put the needle clip 1 stop higher. If it is 3rd position from top put it in the 2nd…in case you have the SI type carb you could consider to change the mix tube.

But it is difficult to say without knowing your set up.

Which carb you have?
You know, the engine should not splutter going up.
You could change the set up during stop cooling down pause to experience and to get it righ.

…the Scorpion is a great pipe!
For me is THE exhaust to use with the Malossi 210 and reed and short 4th.

The problem you read about Scorpion is because people think that a good thing is a good thing however you use it.
It is like saying if this jam is good and this fish is good then if I mix them togheter I haveas a result a good thing! Sorry but I won’t eat this.

The Scorpion is in a way a development of SIP performance.
It will give more power in the higher range expecially after 7000rpm. The thing is that will loose something in comparison in the range from 4500 to 6500 (more or less).
If you have an engine that can go high freely with reed and adapted carb it makes absolutely sense, but mounted like that you won’t be able to appreciate it! And what it can give you won’t be able to really get but you will be effected from what it is missing. So you could have a problem. That’s it.
It is really like cooking. The right ingredient with the right thing.

So the Scorpion is a very very good exhaust if used the way it was conceived to be used.

The standard carb is ok but the Malossi really need a 30.

Maybe in the future you will give to your engine one…

im also having this problem…(and looking for help),[?[] ive put the kit in,and as good as run in ,butcan feel when giving it more throttle in 2nd & 3rd spluttering takes over ;seems like getting to much petrol…after a few changes of main jet 120 seems the best (a long way off the 130 given with the kit)…ive not changed the timing .have standard carb;scorpian exhaust;,200disc…ive also been told to add oil to the petrol as wellwot ever jet i put in…how do people feel about that,scooter season is here and im not ready is 120 ok (plug looks ok),