Carb jetting/needles for keihin 28mm

Hi guys, well i finally got my timing issue figured out..now on to carb....with the setup i have what jetting/needle size do you recommend....my engine in:

Polini 208 kit with machined head for kit.

Cases ported

Mazz racing crank (not full circle)

tuned exhaust

keihin 28mm carb

Thanks

fabs

 

Keihin Carburetion Jetting

AIR SCREW:

The air screw is a small (5mm in diameter) slotted brass adjustment screw located on the inlet side (air filter side) of the carburetor. The airscrew is a fine-tuning adjustment designed to allow the carburetor to be slightly adjusted for variances in atmospheric conditions. The airscrew works with the pilot/slow speed system of the carburetor, mainly affecting the engines initial starting, idling and initial power delivery. Proper adjustment of the airscrew can offer direct feed back on the necessary setting required for the pilot jet. The airscrew is adjusted in a rather straightforward manor.

The ideal procedure for setting the screw in the correct position is to warm up your ATV engine to the proper operating temperature. Then turn the idle up so it is idling about 500 RPM’s higher than normal. Next turn the airscrew all the way in until it bottoms out, once bottomed out slowly back the screw out a ¼ turn at a time (give the engine 10-15 seconds between each ¼ turn of the screw, to allow the engine to catch up with the adjustments). Continue backing the airscrew out until the engine idles at its highest RPM. The preferred setting window is between 1 and 2 turns. If the engine idles at its highest RPM from 0-1 turns out this means the pilot setting is on the Lean side and a larger pilot jet should be installed. If the engine idles at its highest RPM at over 2 turns out, this means the pilot setting is on the Rich side and a smaller pilot jet should be installed.

If you get no RPM fluctuation when adjusting the air screw there is a very realistic chance that there is something clogging the pilot/slow speed system. Clean the system thoroughly with contact cleaner and blow out with compressed air. Carburetor must be disassembled.

If the airscrew adjustment process is unsuccessful and leaves you confused. Set the screw at 1 ½ turns out and consult a professional for further assistance.

PILOT JET:

The pilot jet is a medium size (¾-1”) brass jet located inside the float bowl next to the needle jet/main jet location. The pilot jet meters the fuel required for engine starting, idling and the initial throttle opening 0-1/8.

A lean pilot jet setting will cause your engine to surge at very low RPM’s, bog or cut-out when the throttle is opened quickly and have trouble idling down.

A rich pilot setting will result in hard starting, plug fouling at low RPM’s, sputtering as the throttle is cracked opened.

The pilot jet is not difficult to set. With proper air screw adjustment and a close initial setting from your engine tuner, fine-tuning should be painless. Once set the pilot jet is not terribly sensitive. You should only be required to adjust the setting when confronted with large weather changes or altitude swings of over 2000 ft.

If adjusting the pilot jet gives inconsistent feed back, or does unexplainable things. Check and clean out the pilot/slow speed system thoroughly with contact cleaner and blow out with compressed air.

SLIDE:

The slide not only monitors how much airflow goes into your engine (its main job). But it has various angles cut on the bottom of the slide to monitor airflow at low RPM’s. This is referred to as slide cut away. The slide cut away is measured in 4.0, 5.0, 6.0 etc. (see attached chart). The higher the number, the larger the cut away the leaner the slide setting is.

The slide cut away generally effects the jetting in the ¼ throttle range at almost the same throttle position as the needle diameter effects. The slide cut away is usually predetermined by the engine manufacture or engine tuner. As a general rule do not change the slide cut away unless instructed to do so by a skilled engine tuner.

For ¼ throttle jetting adjustments it is easier to adjust the needle diameter.

NEEDLE:

The jet needle is the most important component in determining your carburetors jetting. The needle is broken into 3 main functions; Diameter, Length, Taper. These needle functions have a large effect on the carburetors jetting from ¼ to ¾ throttle. In the following paragraphs we will explain the needles functions and how to adjust them.

DIAMETER: The needle diameter controls the jetting just above the pilot jet, right as the engine begins to pull. On most engine combinations the needle diameter is felt in the ¼ throttle range. The setting of the needle diameter is crucial to both the engines low RPM power and reliability.

The jetting at ¼ throttle is adjusted by changing the diameter of the needle. On gold colored needles identified with the 3 stamped in letter I.D. system the last letter refers to the needle diameter size. By referencing the enclosed jetting chart you can verify your needles size, and be able to determine what needle size may be required for your specific situation. In many instances you can leave the taper and length settings the same (if they are correct) and adjust only the diameter. EXAMPLE: If you have a needle marked DGJ and change it for a needle marked DGK, you have effectively Leaned the jetting at the ¼ throttle position. Reference the enclosed jetting chart to clearly understand this adjustment.

When the needle diameter is Lean the machine will have a loss of low-end power. The engine will feel very zingy (like a 125cc engine). When an engine is in this condition and then put under a heavy load the engine becomes very susceptible to seizing.

When the needle diameter is Rich the machine will sputter at ¼ throttle and be hesitant to take the throttle. In extreme cases the engine can feel like the choke is on or the plug is fouling.

When the needle diameter jetting is set correctly the engine will accelerate evenly thru the first part of the power band. The proper diameter setting will provide maximum low RPM power and very ride able throttle response.

It is important to remember that even though the needle diameter is mainly responsible for the jetting at ¼ throttle there is some bleed effect. With experience this can easily be deciphered. An excellent way to pin point the feel of the needle diameter is test needles in your machine that have both the same taper and length but richer and leaner diameter settings. Try a needle of each setting in your machine for 10-15 minutes of riding and you will begin to understand specifically what throttle position your dealing with.

LENGTH: The needle length is determined by the clip position (grooves at top of needle) setting on the upper portion of the needle. On most needles there are 5 clip positions. The top clip position is referred to as #1 and is the Leanest setting. The clips are referred to in numerical order with the bottom position being #5, the Richest (refer to attached jetting chart illustration). The clip/length setting covers the largest percentage of jetting in your carburetor. With an emphasis at ½ throttle, the clip (length) setting will bleed both up and down to some degree to cover a wide portion of the midrange jetting.

When the clip/length setting is Lean the machine will be very zingy sounding and feel kind of similar to an 80cc or 125cc machine. Lean in the midrange will also rob power and cause the machine to run hot and seize easily

When the clip/length setting is Rich the machine will have a lazy feeling in the midrange. Exhaust note will be a little flat sounding. In extreme cases of richness the engine will even sputter or kind of crap out in the midrange.

The safest way to set the clip position is to richen up the clip position setting until the machine loses a little power (feels lazy/unresponsive) then lean it back one position. Ideally you like to run the needle setting in either the 3rd or 4th clip position, if possible. The needle clip jetting is especially critical to your machines reliability because on average more time is spent in the midrange than any other part of the throttle. Most machines pull very hard in the midrange, putting quite a load on the engine. This makes a lean condition very detrimental to your reliability.

TAPER: The needle taper is the angle of the needle at its lower half. The taper works the transition between the midrange and full throttle/main jet (¾ throttle position). The taper is the least sensitive function of the needle. Changes in the taper have very mild subtle changes in the jetting. The taper also affects the main jet size your carburetor requires. A leaner needle taper will use a richer main jet than a comparable engine/carburetor combo with a richer needle taper.

As a general rule, your engine tuner or engine manufacture should preset the taper. Once set correctly by a professional the taper setting should not need to be changed except for cases of extreme temperature reduction.

MAIN JET:

The main jet affects the jetting in the upper quarter of the throttle position. Coming into play at ¾ throttle on through to full open throttle. Even though most people relate the main jet to their carburetor in general. The main jet is only responsible for the last ¼ of the jetting. The main jet does not effect the jetting for starting and idling. It plays no part on low RPM or mid RPM jetting either. The main jet is very important to your machines overall tuning, but should never be over emphasized at the expense of needle tuning or other facets of your carburetion tuning.

When the main jet is Lean the engine will experience detonation or “pinging”. Exhaust note will be of a higher, tinier type note. Engine will over heat easy and can be down on horsepower. A moderately lean main jet can cause engine seizures. A severely lean main jet can cause the engine to burn a piston (whole in top).

When the main jet is Rich the engine will be a bit flat or lazy at ¾ to full throttle, giving off a flat, dead sounding exhaust note. When the main jet is severely rich the engine will sputter in the high RPM’s and have a lot of trouble making power up top.

The safest way to get the main jet setting as near correct as possible is to richen the main jet setting up until the engine begins to lose power and not rev to as high of RPM as before. On a single cylinder machine this will signal that the jetting is beginning to get rich. Depending on your riding application you can lean it down a bit from there or leave it for conditions requiring extra fuel (desert racing, long high speed runs, etc.)

As a general rule, richen the jetting up as long as the engine likes it and continues to run just as well or better than the smaller size main jet previously installed. When the engine no longer continues to improve its performance you will know you have gone to far.

Adapted from www.duncanracing.com.


JETTING: Getting the most out of your bike

I have had a lot of questions in reference to my article on carburetor jetting, so I have simplified the procedures to elevate as many questions as possible.

For whatever reason it becomes necessary to re-jet a carburetor, it is without a doubt a nightmare if you do not have a procedure to follow. The following is nothing more than a technique, procedure, steps or whatever you want to call it to help identify and isolate the carburetor circuit involved.

You can only begin re-jetting your carburetor if the following conditions are met:

  1. Top end is in good condition.
  2. Bottom end is in good condition. Crank seals.
  3. Spark plugs, air filters, reeds and so on.

If your bike's motor is not mechanically sound, then all the jetting in the world will not help. With all of the above conditions met, you should be able to jet your carburetor following these steps:

Step 1: DETERMINE THE CORRECT NEEDLE AND OR NEEDLE JET.

Whether or not your carburetor is a MIKUNI or a KEIHIN, it does not matter. This is the most important step in jetting your carburetor--period!

  1. Remove the main jet.
  2. Place needle clip in mid-position.
  3. Start motor and run it on the stand.

Condition: Motor running and main jet out. Needle or needle jet is correct: Carburetor should run clean to approximately 3/4 throttle. From 3/4 throttle to full throttle, the motor should start to break up as a result of too rich condition.
Correction: None needed.

Condition: Needle or needle jet is too rich. Carburetor runs clean to approximately 1/2 throttle but breaks up before 3/4 throttle as a result of too rich condition.
Correction: Mikuni replace needle jet with next leaner and test again. Keihin replace needle with next leaner diameter and test again.

Condition: Needle or needle jet is too lean: Carburetor runs clean beyond 3/4 throttle and has an erratic throttle response.
Correction: Mikuni replace needle jet with next richer and test again. Keihin replace needle with next richer diameter and test again.

The emphasis here is to find the correct needle or needle jet diameter, which will allow more fuel to pass than is needed but not so much that the needle itself has no control below 3/4 throttle.

Step 2: DETERMINE THE CORRECT PILOT JET.

  1. Make sure the bike is warmed up if at all possible.
  2. Main jet out.
  3. Needle clip in mid position.
  4. Turn air screw all the way in then 1/4 turn out.
  5. Start motor and run it on the stand.
  6. Adjust idle so the bike will just barely idle.

Condition: Motor running and main jet out.

PILOT JET CORRECT:  With one hand on the throttle maintaining RPM at approximately 1/8 throttle, turn air screw 1/4 turn at a time clock wise until you bottom it out. Motor should become slightly erratic and you should have to play with throttle to maintain RPM. Start turning air screw counter clock wise, 1/4 turn at a time until you have reached 2 3/4 turns out. Between 1 1/4 and 2 1/4 turns, your motor should have reached its highest RPM maintaining a steady throttle. Adjust air screw again between 1 1/4 and 2 1/4 until you have determined highest RPM. Quick throttle response should be clean without bog.

PILOT JET TO RICH:
RPM does not reach a peak between 1 1/4 and 2 1/4 turns, stays the same or keeps rising out to 2 3/4 turns.
Correction: Mikuni replace pilot jet with next leaner and test again. Keihin replace pilot jet with next leaner and test again.

PILOT JET TO LEAN:
RPM does not become erratic and motor maintains throttle when air screw is turned all the way clockwise.
Correction: Mikuni replace pilot jet with next richer and test again. Keihin replace pilot jet with next richer and test again. Remember, with a steady throttle approximately 1/8, there should be a distinct difference in RPM from 1 1/4 turns to 2 1/4 turns if the pilot jet is correct. The emphasis here is to find a pilot jet that will run crisp without bog and without the main jet.

Step 3: DETERMINE THE CORRECT MAIN JET.

The main jet selection process is easy once you have the correct needle diameter or needle jet. You now only have to correct a rich condition from 3/4 throttle on up and you know what a rich condition sounds like. Your pilot circuit is correct and without bog.

  1. Replace main jet with one that is at least two sizes smaller.
  2. Needle clip in mid position.
  3. Start motor and run it on the stand.

By replacing the main jet with one that is too small, you are looking for a condition that is too lean. You adjust your main jet from a too small to lean condition.

Condition: Motor running and main jet in.

MAIN JET CORRECT:
Carburetor should run clean and crisp to full throttle.
Correction: None needed.

MAIN JET TOO RICH:
RPM reaches a peak slowly with a deep sound. Excess fuel and oil mixture at end of silencer. Spark plug fowls easily and is dark in color.
Correction: Mikuni replace main jet with next leaner and test again. Keihin replace main jet with next leaner and test again.

MAIN JET TOO LEAN:
RPM reaches a peak quickly but erratic. A quick full snap open of throttle causes the motor to hesitate BEWAH sound or a complete bog. Motor sounds like it has a ring to it. End of silencer white. Spark plug is white in color.
Correction: Mikuni replace main jet with next richer until the BEWAH bog just barely goes away, then replace the main jet with the next richer and run it. Keihin replace main jet with next richer until the BEWAH bog just barely goes away, then replace the main jet with the next richer and run it. The emphasis here is find a main jet that is just rich enough to allow you snap the throttle wide open without the motor bogging as a result of the main being too lean. Should be a quick crisp throttle with no hesitation.

Step 4: DETERMINE THE CORRECT NEEDLE TAPER AND CUT AWAY.

This step in the jetting process can be made very simple if you remain close to stock. However, your needle taper is adjusted for 1/2 throttle to 3/4 throttle. Start off with a rich taper (shallow taper angle) and keep going leaner (steeper taper angle) until it will not maintain constant RPM at 1/2 throttle (runs erratic). Go back to the leanest taper angle that ran the smoothest at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle and that should be the correct taper.

The needle taper final test should be under track conditions with the greatest effect entering and exiting corners. Do not change the needle diameter or needle jet size during this process because that has already been determined. Adjust taper and throttle cut away only.

Throttle cut away effects from idle to 1/4 throttle. The correct cut away will maintain steady 1/8 throttle with quick throttle response. Generally the stock cut away is very close. Experiment with different cut away until it maintains the best response to 1/4 throttle.

That's it, if you spend the time jetting correctly, the benefits you will gain definitely out-weigh way the time spent. Take the guesswork out jetting by following a procedure that has been given or one you have laid out yourself. Keep the black magic process out of your tuning tricks and you will be better off for it.

From an article by Don K. Courtney. Link is dead now.

Jetting Tip: pilot jet and air screw

To check to see if your pilot jet and air screw are adjusted right, warm up the motor and let it idle as low as possible while still running smooth. From idle, whack the throttle wide open then let it close completely. Listen to the motor. If it bogs right when you whack the throttle open, then revs up, turn the air screw in 1/2 turn then try again. Do this until it revs up crisply. After the motor revs up, listen to it revving back down. If the revs drop quickly, and the motor starts to bog, and/or die, then you're too rich on the air screw, back it out 1/4 turn at a time. If after you let the throttle off the motor tends to run on and on while revving down very slowly, you're too lean and need to turn the air screw in 1/4 turn at a time. You want the revs to come up from idle quickly and smoothly, then drop back down to idle the same way. If you turn the air screw all the way in and it still needs to go further, then you will need a larger pilot jet. The opposite is also true: if you are backing the screw out so far that it darn near falls out, you will need a smaller pilot jet.

From http://domlnator.tripod.com/id8.html


Needles

The three letters refer to different aspects of the needle. In turn you have:

  1. Taper: most effective at ½-¾ throttle.
  2. Length/clip position: most effective at ¼-½ throttle.
  3. Diameter: most effective towards ¼ throttle.

Higher taper letters are richer; for diameter and length, higher letters are leaner.

For example, going off a standard JJH needle (our old N80F needle was close), and comparing with our other needles:

  • GJH: leaner taper, so leaner at ½-¾ throttle.
  • LJH: richer taper, so richer at ½-¾ throttle.
  • JJK: leaner diameter, so leaner towards ¼ throttle.
  • JJF: richer diameter, so richer towards ¼ throttle.
Diameter
Taper (A)
in degrees
(L1) Length
in mm
D=
2.405
E=
2.405
F=
2.415
G=
2.425
H=
2.435
J=
2.445
K=
2.455
L=
2.465
M=
2.475
N=
2.485
P=
2.495
Q=
2.505
S=
2.525
G
2° 26'
F=22.25 Rich GFH GFK
J=25.40 Lean GJH GJK

H
2° 45'
F=22.25 Rich HFF HFG HFH HFK
K=25.85 HKF HKG HKH HKJ HKK HKL
L=27.20 Lean HLG HLH HLJ

J
3° 00'
F=22.25 Rich JFG JFJ JFL JFN JFP JFQ JFS
G=23.60 JGN JGQ JGS
J=25.40 JJD JJE JJF JJG JJH JJJ JJK JJL JJM JJN JJQ JJS
L=27.20 Lean JLF JLG JLH JLJ

K
3° 15'
L=27.20 KLF KLG KLH KLJ KLK

L
3° 33'
G=23.60 Rich LGG LGH LGJ LGL LGN LGQ LGS
J=25.40 Lean LJG LJH LJJ

M
3° 50'
J=25.40 Rich MJN MJQ MJS
L=27.20 Lean MLL MLN MLQ MLS

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