Where can I get a 21t clutch cog for the P2 in uk?My dealer has listed one at £90.[?
Just looked on ebay item slidingdog posted. This what you want. I would say going rate for second hand should be £30-£35
Hi was talkin to Harry Barlow about this yesterday. We measured the clutch cogs on the 2o,21 and 22 tooth clutches and there is nearly 2mm difference between these and a 23 tooth clutch. They will mesh but they will eventually cause damage. If you havn’t already matched your transfers this will help but trust me I went to Cleethorpes with a Carlos Fandango Taffspeed 210 that just wouldn’t pull up hills or into the wind. Saying all this Harry is adamant that he can get them pulling 4th. He also does a 37t 4th gear (t5 36).
Trouble is you will get conflicting advice from every where. All I know is I have built a number of 210 motors both reed and with std carb set ups and they all get to rallys and back and they all pull like trains even two up. This is not because im ace at tuning its just that ive changed the gearing.
Your using the wrong dealer if he says the cogs are more than the clutches. He is probably quoting Fowlers ie main dealer prices.
Hope this is of some help.
Ha im glad you tried em before me. Can I suggest the extra stong clutch springs from worb5. They are brillo pads!
Hi curare, very pleased to see that you are back to the forum and hopefully recovering well!I think I will give it a go if I can source a 21 cog at a realistic price(diablo may have the answer).Also shall I upgrade the clutch springs?Whose do you reccomend,Taff`s?
Hi For more than that speed on a full frame I think you need 26bhp+ any way. 83 is pretty respectable. I run 21/68 and get 85 at 9200revs. This is on a cut down. Going to try 22t to try and achieve a true(ie not pub bullshit) 90mph. No disrespect to anyone out there but I think the reason british shops dont recommend it is because of our rally scene ie a lot of long distance journeys. The maths is there. If a 21t measures approx 40mm diameter and a 23t measures approx 42mm thats 2mm difference with 1mm not meshing. Any gear cutter will tell you this is not a good thing.Doesn’t sound like a lot but ive seen clutches took out of these engines. At the end of the day it obviously does work but i think with some enventual damgage. Curare obviously has experimented with this a lot more than me and he obviously knows his stuff. I fix bikes for a living so I cant just build an engine give it to the customer and say come and see me at the end of the season so I can replace your clutch and primary! Has your engine been toegther long vespamalossi? If it has (and you obviously thrash it) then if no damage the proof is in the pudding. I am often wrong about many things. But if it was an option why is it not in Norrie Kerrs tuning book? He is a mardy twat but he does know a thing or two about vespas!
Your dealer has quoted you for a complete clutch. If you already have a cosa style clutch you just need the cog. This is available from ve so your dealer should be able to supply it for £54-£55. The germans are doing complete clutches already strengthened for just over £100. Make sure when you rebuild you use strengthened springs. Also keep a check on the clutch regularly as Curare is the only person I know recomending this mod.
std is 35, T5 is 36 and Harrys 37. To change 4th u’ve got to split the casing anyway. If you are confident to split your cases then believe me matching the transfers really is an easy job. I wouldn’t advise opening the inlet port as this can be tricky with a normal carb. Changing the primarys is also easy if you can obtain either a T5 or PX125 gear cluster. Harry gets his to work by matching the tranfers, a little porting on the inlet, 37t 4th gear and a bit of messing with the carb. If all this is too much hassle apparently one of the German shops are now making replacement polini pistons that don’t destroy themselves. Youi could shelve the malossi for another day or sell it and buy a polini with this piston. Polinis are shit hot its just the original pistons are weak. This will solve all your problems as polinis pull 4th gear no probs at a less cost than a new exhaust. If you want to stick with malossi scooterhelps website is a good place to look at photos of matched tranfers.
I use 20/65 in my px and it runs out of steam at 83mph…goes like a bullet 1/2/3 but 4th is a bit screamy at that speed .
What do you think i need…?
RE-TUNED 166 MALOSSI
FULLY TUNED CASES
hello to everybody,
I have red all this post, and I confirm that for Malossi 210 engine with rotary or any other engine not exceding 23hp you can use the 21/65.
In a big Malossi with reed +… it won’t last long.
I have personally used this combination with Polini 177 and Malossi 166 for long time ( it means more then 8000 km) and no probl. For the go around the world test, sorry, didn’t do that yet.
Thanks a lot for your support durring my accident.
Hi…ENGINE HAS BEEN FINE FOR A WHILE BUT IT LIKES TO EAT CLUTCH PLATES…ONLY MAJOR PROBLEM I HAD WAS THE PRIMARY EXPLODING AND PUNCHING A HOLE IN THE CASES…ENGINE HAS ONLY DONE 1200 MILES SINCE NEW 2003…AND YES IT GETS ITS ARSE THRASHED EVERYWHERE I GO.
so vespamalossi uses even 20/65.
Vespamalossi how many Km have you done? So if you hadn’t any problem with your set up means 21/65 it is more sure.
I perfectly understand Diablo, and english shops.
If you fix bikes for living you have to be conservative. Many want to go as fast as possible, but still having the bike like standard in its services.
I think it is just a question of what kind of customer you have.
I used to do dirty bike when I was younger, and my prepared engines were not lasting like a normal street bike ones. And piston and other things needed often replacement. But nobody would have said in that contest that something was wrong with the engine.
Maybe fan of tuned vespa are still in the borderline or they want it all.
It is true that you don’t have all that choices regarding gearing ratio for PX, and depending on the tuning you have a lot of different engines, so it is normal that to find the correct gearing is problematic.
For this reason I prefered the option of the possibility of driving less miles the way I like then infinte miles with no pleasure at all.
I think in this case Curare sold me its theory that I red in a previous post about the same subject.
Me too I prefer to be in love for a short moment then a long flat history.
But of course it is a question of personality.
And then I don’t understand the matter at all.
Tuning is question of spending money, and all the advices about opening cranck, porting, carb and so on costs a lot of money, and replacing a broken element cost money costs money too. So at the end it is the same thing even though the last makes you angry. If you don’t want to spend money or if you want to spend as less money as possible or you try to avoid of getting angry with all your strength, I would advice to stay with a normal engine.
Not so but it wont help enough to justify the expense. If your considering harrys 4th gear then you could just as easily change the primary. Its bloody dificult when everybody is giving different advice. If I was you and it being perfect riding weather I would take Curares advice until the season is over and reassess then. The damage (if any) wont be terminal and it could be you are able to tell us on the forum that it worked or didn’t. My email is in my profile contact me if you are still having trouble finding a 21t cog.
Good luck with it Wheels
P.s whats wrong with a bike getting to its top end-thats where the fun is. Vespas need thrashing its what they were made for!
Yeah,know what you mean about conflicting advice,makes your head spin knowing which way to turn!!Thing is,can
t get the porting done locally,dont really want to split casings to send off (scoot would be off the road too long & it
s a mission to do)so thats why I initially asked about putting a JL on it instead of the scorpion to bring the power band down.Then we began the gearing debate?Curare seemed confidant about the 21/65 but I can see that if they are a couple of mm differant in size that this could create wear/stress issues.It`s just that it was a relatively easy thing to do in comparison to the primary.How does Harry get them pulling in 4th,is it with just the 37tooth.Is the standard 35?Cos this could be an option.[:rolleyes:]
Vespamalossi its the HP4 killing your plates-I have had the same problem. I think as Curare advises the PK is less brutal-but doncha just love that sound!
Just been back and had a look at Norries book and he dosn’t actually say dont do it more that he dosn’t think its neccesary-this is before cosa clutch set ups.
Costabravo is right its more fun to have ballistic engines and rebuild often but wheels dosn’t seem to want to do major engine work. At the end of the day we’re not talkin about Lambrettas here-a vespa will take loads of abuse before it says i’ve had enough!
Thanks Sliding Dog & Diablo,I will check it on e-bay.The dealer priced for just the cog but I
m sure it was at top retail as he commented that he could supply a complete clutch cheaper!He also said that he didnt know if it would mesh or not?Phoned PM and the guy reckoned that It would not be very fast although it would get to it
s top end and suggested porting was the thing(dont know if it was just cos he didn`t have one).[:smokin:]
HA HA…BEEN THERE DONE THAT…WENT THROUGH A SET IN 2 DAYS MATE…LARRY FROM SPARKRIGHT TECH WHO SOLD THEM TO ME WAS BLOWN AWAY AS HE USES THEM IN HIS 210 COMBO AND HIS ARE FINE.HE IS BUSY AT THE MO LOOKING INTO MAKING A 5 PLATE SETUP WITH A KEVLAR/CARBON MIX PLATES FOR ME, THEN ITS OFF TO CHISELSPEED IN LEEDS TO GET SETUP ON THE DYNO WITH SCOOTERING MAGAZINE .